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 Orson Scott Card asks that you ignore his views

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Alex Ness

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PostSubject: Orson Scott Card asks that you ignore his views   Thu Jul 11, 2013 4:48 pm

And look at his art.

I think his work Ender's Game is boring and crappy. But it has nothing to do with gay marriage.

So I agree. Look at the art. If you like it, like it. I think it is shit.

However, his religiously inspired political views are still out of step and should be called whatever they are.

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Chris W



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PostSubject: Re: Orson Scott Card asks that you ignore his views   Thu Jul 11, 2013 9:34 pm

Punish the thoughtcriminal!!!
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Alex Ness

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PostSubject: Re: Orson Scott Card asks that you ignore his views   Thu Jul 11, 2013 9:37 pm

There is that too. We've entered a time and place where a person isn't allowed opinions. Free speech does not exist. Because we are supposed to agree.
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Peter Urkowitz

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PostSubject: Re: Orson Scott Card asks that you ignore his views   Thu Jul 11, 2013 10:26 pm

My understanding is that Orson Scott Card actively campaigned and gave money to organizations that campaign to deny gay people their civil rights. So it's not merely punishing thoughtcrime, if you don't want your entertainment dollars going to support that sort of hateful activity.

I've never read his books, so no opinion there.

Regarding the recent tiff over whether Card should write some Superman comics or not, my opinions are not very strong. I don't know whether the comics would have been any good or not, and it seems unlikely that the stories would have pushed Card's extremist views. DC didn't seem to really care, since they just wanted a big name author who could give them some kind of sales boost. When they found that he might actually hurt sales, they dropped him, which seems fair enough. It doesn't seem like they were dropping him just because of his views or opinions. They were dropping him because he was bad for business.
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Alex Ness

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PostSubject: Re: Orson Scott Card asks that you ignore his views   Thu Jul 11, 2013 10:41 pm

Behind every single artist is someone with views we disagree with.

Should we ask for a read out of their political donations before we read or look at their work?
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edquinby001

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PostSubject: Re: Orson Scott Card asks that you ignore his views   Fri Jul 12, 2013 2:37 pm

I can't fault a creator for living their lives as free and publicly as they like. Sometimes knowing those views, especially if you disagree with them, are an impediment to appreciating their work on its own merits though. Even being familiar with an author's speaking voice can be a stumbling block. Every now and then when I'm reading something by Alan Moore, my 'mind's ear' hears it all in a thick Northampton accent, even the women!
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J.M. Hunter

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PostSubject: Re: Orson Scott Card asks that you ignore his views   Fri Jul 12, 2013 5:19 pm

edquinby001 wrote:
I can't fault a creator for living their lives as free and publicly as they like. Sometimes knowing those views, especially if you disagree with them, are an impediment to appreciating their work on its own merits though. Even being familiar with an author's speaking voice can be a stumbling block. Every now and then when I'm reading something by Alan Moore, my 'mind's ear' hears it all in a thick Northampton accent, even the women!

Hahahah!

I just read a DC collection of Alan Moore's greatist DC hits. Alot of these stories that y'all are arleady familiar with I've never read.

Really good stuff! The hype is right!

btw, Somebody just compared my recent work to Lichenstein.....Evil or Very Mad wtf.
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Joe Lee
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PostSubject: Re: Orson Scott Card asks that you ignore his views   Thu Oct 24, 2013 1:32 pm

With Ender's game coming out in a week, (Oops bad choice of words), I ran across some stuff...

http://skipendersgame.com/

http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2013/08/02/enders-game-boycotters-not-satisfied-with-filmmakers-outreach-to-gay-community

The Studio reply made sense to me, (ink below) why punish everyone who worked on the film and at a film studio, for adapting a classic scifi novel they didn't know or realize was written by a homophobe. I don't remember, did the novel have anti-gay themes...

Quote :
As proud longtime supporters of the LGBT community, champions of films ranging from 'Gods and Monsters' to 'The Perks of Being a Wallflower' and a company that is proud to have recognized same-sex unions and domestic partnerships within its employee benefits policies for many years, we obviously do not agree with the personal views of Orson Scott Card and those of the National Organization for Marriage. However, they are completely irrelevant to a discussion of 'Ender’s Game.'
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/12/enders-game-gay-response-_n_3588566.html
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Chris W



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PostSubject: Re: Orson Scott Card asks that you ignore his views   Thu Oct 24, 2013 9:24 pm

Only if you consider no references to homosexuality at all and very few to heterosexuality of any type to be an 'anti-gay theme'. Thoughtcrime being what it is, I'm sure that's all the evidence many people would need of 'anti-gay themes.' Orson Scott Card has views that some people disagree with, and therefore everything he has ever done is completely without merit and anyone who thinks otherwise - or can be accused of thinking otherwise - is subject to whatever punishment goodthinkers see fit. Goodthink doubleplusgood. Thoughtcrime doubleplusungood.
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Joe Lee
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PostSubject: Re: Orson Scott Card asks that you ignore his views   Fri Oct 25, 2013 1:02 am

ChrisW wrote:
Only if you consider no references to homosexuality at all and very few to heterosexuality of any type to be an 'anti-gay theme'.
Exactly, and technically wouldn't Star Wars be Pro-incest?

I remember when Basic Instinct came out, there was such an uproar about the villain being lesbian and/or bisexual. They way some complained, any villain not a middle-aged, white republican male, was representing his entire group/minority/sexual orientation, and therefore discriminatory.

Remember when all villainous biker gangs on TV action adventure shows were integrated, to avoid the accusation of racism?

ChrisW wrote:
Thoughtcrime being what it is, I'm sure that's all the evidence many people would need of 'anti-gay themes.'  
Well, lets not paint an entire group by the actions of extremists. There are valid points to be made against some media portrayals of gays and minorities.

Billy Crystal's reasonable portrayal of a homosexual on SOAP back in the '70's was lightyears ahead of the over-the-top in your face GLEE portrayals today.

ChrisW wrote:
Orson Scott Card has views that some people disagree with, and therefore everything he has ever done is completely without merit and anyone who thinks otherwise...
See that's where we can agree. Let the art speak for itself. If you want to strike a blow for gay rights, don't do it by spearheading a boycott of a movie based on a classic sci-fi novel. I'm sure more than a few people on the crew and were LGBT.
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Terry M (Ditko Fan)

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PostSubject: Re: Orson Scott Card asks that you ignore his views   Fri Oct 25, 2013 2:51 pm

ChrisW wrote:
Orson Scott Card has views that some people disagree with, and therefore everything he has ever done is completely without merit and anyone who thinks otherwise - or can be accused of thinking otherwise - is subject to whatever punishment goodthinkers see fit.  Goodthink doubleplusgood.  Thoughtcrime doubleplusungood.
Actually it's not all about the "Thought police" or "Thought crimes" or even "political correctness"  but  the man donates a great deal of money to organizations who fight against hate crime legislation, gay marriage laws, and in the past even gays in the military. So it's not just a "thought" anymore, it's an action. If you put money in Orson Scott Card's pocket, it might end up funding anti gay-rights initiatives. That's not just his opinion anymore, which he has every right to, he's also through funding these organizations, oppressing a minority. If we were just talking about his personal opinion, and that's all it was I would agree with you.

Plus, I disagree with the man above who said the book was "boring and crappy". I read it when I was in college and liked it, it's good sci-fi, and it's message is not anti-gay, despite no mention of homosexuality. If a book has no black characters in it is it inherently racist? No it depends on the setting and the story. Ender's Game wasn't about sexual interactions between humans.
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Chris W



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PostSubject: Re: Orson Scott Card asks that you ignore his views   Sun Oct 27, 2013 6:53 pm

Terry M (Ditko Fan) wrote:
If you put money in Orson Scott Card's pocket, it might end up funding anti gay-rights initiatives. That's not just his opinion anymore, which he has every right to, he's also through funding these organizations, oppressing a minority. If we were just talking about his personal opinion, and that's all it was I would agree with you.
Or if you put money in Orson Scott Card's pocket, it might end up buying food for his wife and children. He's the one who decides where his money goes, and everyone else decides whether or not to give him any of their money. Judging by how many Ender-series books we have to enjoy, many people give him their money. [I have very little interest in Card's work outside the Ender books, and after all these re-reads, I still can't figure out if Anton is gay or a pedophile. And that's the closest the series comes to mentioning homosexuality. Thoughtcrime being what it is, I'm sure that's enough for accusations of hatred.]

Joe Lee wrote:

Exactly, and technically wouldn't Star Wars be Pro-incest?
Because it made no references to incest at all and very few to heterosexuality of any type? Maybe you're thinking of a little bestiality with the Ewok crying over its fallen brother? Otherwise I have no idea what you're referring to here.
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Joe Lee
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PostSubject: Re: Orson Scott Card asks that you ignore his views   Sun Oct 27, 2013 11:18 pm

Joe Lee wrote:
Exactly, and technically (by using the same logic as extremist protesters) wouldn't Star Wars be Pro-incest?
ChrisW wrote:
Because it made no references to incest at all and very few to heterosexuality of any type?
Of any type? So Leia didn't kiss Luke. Luke didn't crush on Leia. And there wasn't some light bondage/s&m with Vader and Leia?Very Happy 

Lighten up man, I wasn't making the case for Star Wars being pro-incest. By using the Star Wars example, I was pointing out the absurdity of anyone claiming "Ender's Game" was anti-gay. Do you ever actually read posts before you argue with them?
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Terry M (Ditko Fan)

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PostSubject: Re: Orson Scott Card asks that you ignore his views   Mon Oct 28, 2013 1:46 pm

ChrisW wrote:

Or if you put money in Orson Scott Card's pocket, it might end up buying food for his wife and children.  He's the one who decides where his money goes, and everyone else decides whether or not to give him any of their money.  Judging by how many Ender-series books we have to enjoy, many people give him their money.  [I have very little interest in Card's work outside the Ender books, and after all these re-reads, I still can't figure out if Anton is gay or a pedophile.  And that's the closest the series comes to mentioning homosexuality.  Thoughtcrime being what it is, I'm sure that's enough for accusations of hatred.]
The problem with people like you is that you see yourselves as victims.

If Orson Scott Card has a strongly held belief about homosexuality, it is thought.

But according to people like you, if I disagree with him it's not just my thought, it's an attack on his thoughts, a politically correct thought crime

Take it back a step further.

• A group of homosexual people feel they deserve equal rights.

• Card disagrees. He donates money to anti-gay pac.

• I boycott his movie. Not wanting to financially support his cause. Which by your logic, makes Card a victim of "thoughtcrime" mentality?

What makes my action different than Card's? Why is my thought an attack, but his thought is victim? By your logic, why isn't Card's disagreeing with pro-gay thoughts, not considered attacking gayrights advocates as a "though-crime" prosecution? Why is one side the victim when they are both just expressing opinion?

You want it both ways Wink

You want your opinion, and you don't want others to have theirs. You want to paint yourselves as victims of the opinions of others. Ironically while advocating against Hate Crimes legislation. Because obviously suffering the opinions of others is worse than getting beaten to death for being different.
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Terry M (Ditko Fan)

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PostSubject: Re: Orson Scott Card asks that you ignore his views   Mon Nov 04, 2013 2:50 pm

GOING TO TRY TO AVOID SPOILERS (but just to play it safe), SPOILER ALERT:

Meh.

Visually mostly it looked cool. Some things very close to how I imagined them. They changed the ending. Changes were not as horrifying as Will Smith's I Robot but nowhere as cool as an adaptation as Blade Runner.

Oh and Chris FYI. I used a gift certificate and went to a matinee, and bought for a ticket for a different movie starting almost the same time. The Counselor.Razz 
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