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 Dr. Pepper's Degree Is In Evolultion, Apparently.

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JamesCarter

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PostSubject: Dr. Pepper's Degree Is In Evolultion, Apparently.   Fri Sep 14, 2012 4:24 pm

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The fact that Dr Pepper's post has incited this much conflict is absolutely dumbfounding, and more than a little depressing. Remember what all this contention is about: an advertisement for a popular soda. That's it. A pretty uninspired ad, to be honest, and a scientifically inaccurate one, at that. The fact that we're arguing about this as opposed to, say, the teaching of actual evolution in our country's schools is mind-boggling. This debate is misguided. The fervor, from just about everyone involved, is hugely and embarrassingly misplaced.

I think this argument would be a lot better served with a little more respect. The problem isn't that both 'sides' want to argue about an issue, it's that the majority of participants argue with such disrespect for the other 'sides' beliefs that everyone ends up looking like idiots. The few people involved in debates like this which are halfway reasonable tend to get lost in the sea of childish insults, slogans and blinding ignorance.

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PostSubject: Re: Dr. Pepper's Degree Is In Evolultion, Apparently.   Fri Sep 14, 2012 5:09 pm

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JamesCarter

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PostSubject: Re: Dr. Pepper's Degree Is In Evolultion, Apparently.   Fri Sep 14, 2012 5:18 pm

Thanks!
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Peter Urkowitz

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PostSubject: Re: Dr. Pepper's Degree Is In Evolultion, Apparently.   Fri Sep 14, 2012 9:16 pm

I dunno, James, I think I'm fairly respectful of people's religions, but I find it hard to be respectful when they don't believe in science.

That whole Dr. Pepper flamewar seems fairly hilarious, but we actually do need accurate science information and education if we're going to continue as a technological society. Sure, it's okay up to a point if just the actual scientists know how the natural world works. But then we get politicians and school boards making policy based on their fantasies, and then it really starts to affect the rest of us.
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PostSubject: Re: Dr. Pepper's Degree Is In Evolultion, Apparently.   Sun Sep 16, 2012 2:23 pm

Peter Urkowitz wrote:
I dunno, James, I think I'm fairly respectful of people's religions, but I find it hard to be respectful when they don't believe in science.

That whole Dr. Pepper flamewar seems fairly hilarious, but we actually do need accurate science information and education if we're going to continue as a technological society. Sure, it's okay up to a point if just the actual scientists know how the natural world works. But then we get politicians and school boards making policy based on their fantasies, and then it really starts to affect the rest of us.

Do these people get taught the science, or are they simply unaware of it? It seems absurd for a person in the modern day to be ignorant of the core scientific values, but I can imagine in some communities that the religious upbringings are so strong, science gets lost if not entirely avoided. If this is the case I'd argue it would then be better to try and educate them respectfully, rather than simply waving them off as idiots. Easier said than done of course, but it's unfair to condemn someone if they haven't been taught through no fault of their own.

The other side of that coin, of course, is people who are willfully ignorant. Now I can appreciate not being respectful in an argument with someone who openly chooses not to learn things, but then I'd also suggest that even beginning a debate with someone like that is a fruitless endeavor to begin with.

And what of a person who has taken the time to learn the fundamental's of modern science, but chooses not accept it, favoring their religion instead? Granted, that person is a rare individual indeed and I certainly can't point to any examples, but there must be one or two around.

In regards to politicians/schools making policy based on religion, I agree that is wrong.
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Peter Urkowitz

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PostSubject: Re: Dr. Pepper's Degree Is In Evolultion, Apparently.   Tue Sep 18, 2012 1:57 am

There have been cases of people hired at science labs who then refused to do any work having to do with evolution. There was a lady at the Woods Hole Oceanographic Lab who got fired for that. She had a decent science degree from a good school, but after she was hired, she said, "Oh yeah, evolution is against my religion, so i can't do any work related to that." So they fired her, since you just can't do any kind of biology without reference to evolution at some level. She tried to sue, saying she was being discriminated against for religious reasons, but they had a good case that she just couldn't do her job with that kind of blinders on. I am probably misremembering the details, but I think that's how it turned out.

As for the rest of the country, there's a bunch of states where wingnuts are trying to legislate that creationism be taught in schools. During the GOP primaries, most of the candidates stated that they did not believe in evolution. And something like 40% of the country claims to believe in creationism, although it's hard to say how literally they mean that. Scary stuff.

So yeah, how to deal with that massive a wave of ignorance? With respect? Or scorn? Or some clever combination of the two?
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PostSubject: Re: Dr. Pepper's Degree Is In Evolultion, Apparently.   Tue Sep 18, 2012 12:06 pm

Not exactly the same thing, but along the same lines of people, because of religion, refusing to do something that they knew full well would be a part of their job, before they agreed to do the job, but now they have the law on their side...

http://thinkprogress.org/health/2012/05/16/485092/kansas-pharmacists-block-birth-control/?mobile=nc
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